Topic: Character animation for games questions

[Justin Sinaga]

Hello all,

I'm new here.

I'm a junior character animator. Previously I had several years of experience at an animation house, working on character animation for fully-animated TV series. I join a game developer studio recently, working there as a in-games character animator, but I notice some differences in how I should animate.

1. For TV-series animation, I just need to create animations which look good on camera. But for in-games, many of my animation works have been critized by my supervisor, mostly on character posing.

2. For TV-series, I was trained in animating with correct timing and no going-through character body parts. But for in-games, I noticed some animations created by my fellow animators seem to be too fast in timing, and ignoring going-through body parts. They said it's okay because we are constrained by some certain, exact number of frames/duration.

3. For TV-series, I used straight-ahead animation method. While for in-games, they use pose-to-pose method intensively.

4. For TV-series, I used the Graph Editor intensively, while for in-games, they don't use it at all; they use a single viewport with motion paths of character body parts.

Do I miss some things here, for in-games character animation? 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

-Justin

[Matt Ornstein]

Yea, there are differences in game animation vs. other forms.

1. Yes, in game animation a pose and or animation needs to be as strong as possible from ALL angles.  Often in the case of a playable characters it will need to work best in the view its most often seen, such as behind the character when using a 3rd person camera. 

2.  As far as timing... it's not that games use "incorrect" timing, rather games can push and stylize the timing.  You can can get away with very pose to pose, snappy animation.  Long builds ups with quick releases and holds.  Look at something like God of War.  And yes, since game play is so closely linked with animation, you often times have to work within a set frame count as given to you by design.  I find myself constantly asking design for more frames, and they want less, its a balancing act and the nature of game development.  You'll be surprised though with what you can get away with in just a few frames.

3. I haven't experienced straight ahead or pose to pose to be the "preferred" method in games.  Rather every animator I have worked with animates in unique method, usually a combination of the two.  Maybe what you are seeing is in games we tend to rough out quick impressions of an animation rather than very carefully craft each pose from the start.  That way we can quickly get something in game, let design muck with it, and then we can give the animation the love we need.  That way we aren't constantly redoing polished animation as design's needs change.

4.  You guys using Max?  From what I understand, Max's default graph editor pretty much blows (so maybe thats why they use it less).  At Lucas Arts we used Maya and we all worshiped at the alter of the graph editor.  At Red5 we are using Max, but with an add on called "Puppet Shop" that makes Max's rigs and graph editor MUCH better.  Pretty much all of us use it, with the exception of one dude, and he is like super old school 3d before there were even curves.

just remember, animation (that matter everything in games) needs to be in service of the game play!

[Justin Sinaga]

1. Yes, in game animation a pose and or animation needs to be as strong as possible from ALL angles. 

I think I need to learn more about *strong animation poses. Would you please recommend some good readings on this?

3. I haven't experienced straight ahead or pose to pose to be the "preferred" method in games.  Rather every animator I have worked with animates in unique method, usually a combination of the two.  Maybe what you are seeing is in games we tend to rough out quick impressions of an animation rather than very carefully craft each pose from the start.  That way we can quickly get something in game, let design muck with it, and then we can give the animation the love we need.  That way we aren't constantly redoing polished animation as design's needs change.

I have a problem using this approach. Our production schedule is very tight. We are required to finish minimum 3-4 in-game animations per day. That's why I use straight-ahead method in order to speed up my animation process. Any suggestion to improve my animation process?

4.  You guys using Max?

Yes, Character Studio for sure.

Thanks for any suggestions.

-Justin

[Matt Ornstein]

I think I need to learn more about *strong animation poses. Would you please recommend some good readings on this?

Ummm, Animation Survival Guide by Richard Williams?  Seriously, it's the same rules as animating to a fixed camera, you just need to check it at all angles.  I start with looking at it in the orthoscopic (did I spell that right right?) views first (front, left, right, back)  then I go into perspective and orbit around and check it.  I usually set up an "in game" camera as well if it's like a playable character.

If straight ahead is working for you, great.  I find what is fastest for me is a combination of the two.  I also tend to layer a bit more, working from the center of gravity outward.

As far as character studio, I don't have any experience with it. Like I said we are using Max, but with Puppet Shop.  I hear character is..... difficult.  You have my sympathy.

[krisstaber]

i work in both industries and the biggest difference is that in 3d games you dont really have a fixed camera
you often have a prefered view (like 3rd person) through which you will see the animations most of the time
but you cant cheat to the camera
which is a bit of a pain because when it has to look good from all angles it ends up not looking really good from any
that one combined with the short ammount of time you usually have in games makes it very hard to be able to get high quality animations that feel good. its a lot easier to get that with a fixed camera.

the rest is the same i think
you need good poses everywhere
ge or not is personal preference
animation for games is usually also a bit more technical because you have to work in the limitations of the engine you have to export it to.

a nice exeption are 2d games - they are awesome to animate for

[Justin Sinaga]

Thanks Kris & Matt,
Just wondering, how much animation quota per day do you guys usually do for in-games?
Thanks again

[Matt Ornstein]

It all depends man.  Are you making a first pass that might need to ship in a pinch?  Or are you tossing in a animation just to get something functional?  It also depends on what type of animation it is.  I might spend close to a day working on a run cycle, because I have five other directional runs (south, east, east2, west, west2) that are based on it.  But I can knock out 4-6 hit reacts in a day, or a bunch of transition animation.  If I'm doing some elaborate combat moves it might take me a couple of days.  Is it a biped or a creature?  There just isn't a good answer to your question.

The best advice is to ask your lead how much you should be getting done.  Do you guys you rainmaker, devtrack or some other program to track your assignments?  Usually the lead or producer will put a deadline in that, if you are making your deadlines, then don't worry. 

[Justin Sinaga]

Are you making a first pass that might need to ship in a pinch? Is it a biped or a creature?

We have 3-4 in-games of biped character animation quota per day, that includes attack, getting hit, walk cycle, run cycle, etc animations. But the quota instructed by our lead is fixed: 3-4 in-games per day. Not sure if we have first, second, final passes in such a short production time. AFAIK, my lead just uses MS Excel document given by the client.

[Matt Ornstein]

Hmmm.  3-4 animations per day for a AAA current gen title, regardless of the type of animation it is... seems like a rather blanket statement, and pretty difficult to achieve.

Are you guys using mocap?  Mocap is a lot faster to clean up and tweak rather than the keys being from scratch. 

Do you mind me asking what sort of game and for what platform are you working on?

I'm actually very curious to hear other people who have or are working in games about this.

[Justin Sinaga]

Are you guys using mocap? Do you mind me asking what sort of game and for what platform are you working on?

No, we don't use mocap. We create the animation from scratch, by using reference of some other resembling characters. We just use 3ds Max's Character Studio/Biped for this project. It's for an outsourced action/sport game project from an international client.

Glad to know that it's indeed difficult; just thought it was me who's inexperienced/stupid, haha! But anyway, I found another local studio that requires me to create about 8 in-game animations per day. Since I'm new to game industry, I'd be glad to learn from you guys/gals.